alt.energy.homepower

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 01:14:51 GMT, "Pete C." < @ >
wrote:

>wmbjkREMOVE@ wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 00:49:33 GMT, "Pete C." < @ >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >wmbjkREMOVE@ wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 20:22:38 -0400, "Mike Payne"
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >I guess it's my job to disagree with most of the other posters. 15A
>> >> >circuits let you work with 14 gauge wire. It is orders of magnitude easier
>> >> >to wire outlets and lights with 14 rather than 12. I use 12 only for
>> >> >workshops and kitchens where they might actually be needed.
>> >>
>> >> That makes 2 of us. A friend tried to talk me into using #12 for
>> >> everything (as he'd done at his own place). When I told him that the
>> >> bulk of the long runs were one light per circuit, and that nearly all
>> >> of them would be 12W CFs, he started the "what about the next guy"
>> >> angle. Sheesh! If there's a next guy, and if he wants to use 150W
>> >> bulbs, and if he thinks that'll stress the #14, then too bad. :-)
>> >>
>> >> Wayne
>> >
>> >I have to disagree, I find the "workability" difference between 12 ga
>> >and 14 ga virtually unnoticeable. 2 ga copper is a bit of a pain to deal
>> >with, but much of anything below that is all the same to me.
>>
>> I don't agree, but even if there was zero workability difference, that
>> wouldn't be a valid reason to spend even a nickel extra on a 12W
>> circuit, or any low-power circuit.
>
>That would almost make sense if circuits always remained in the same
>usage and with the same loads on them. When someone decides they need to
>add something to the circuit or upgrade lighting things can change
>dramatically and the 14ga circuit that was feeding the old circular
>flouro in the kitchen may suddenly be feeding several halogen populated
>cans and a pile of halogen under cabinet and soffit lighting in a
>kitchen remodel.

Obviously one should take into account potential expansion, but that's
not a good reason to overdo *everything*. You're basically repeating
an extremely overused Usenet argument - "what about the next guy".
Doesn't make any sense in a lot of cases. For example, I have
something like 2 dozen pot lights, each on it's own circuit. If this
house ever has another owner, and they decide to add outlets into the
ceiling and plug in 100 times the wattage on some of those circuits...
But wait... isn't it just as likely that the next guy will end up in a
wheelchair? We should build ramps, etc.

>> The only half-way reasonable
>> argument I've heard for using 12 on low-power circuits is that it's
>> more forgiving of bad workmanship. But anyone who needs that crutch
>> shouldn't be doing electrical work anyway.
>
>I've never hear that, and can't even fathom the (il)logic behind it.

You might do some simple experiments with #12 and #14 wire. Pretend
you're a novice, and nick the wire when you strip it. Wrap it around a
screw connection, and then bend it back and forth like a novice does
when he's learning why he shouldn't try to stuff 5' of wire in a 1'
box. :-) You'll find that the 14 breaks easier than the 12.

>>
>> Lots of people (including me) waste money when they don't need to, but
>> we shouldn't encourage the newbs to do that. Ask any question on
>> Usenet, and far more people will tell you to overdo things than
>> underdo them. If a guy with a normal budget started building a home,
>> and followed the Usenet consensus on how to do it, he'd probably run
>> out of money before he finished the foundation. :-)
>
>Perhaps, but I don't think the cost difference is that significant, even
>with a complete home since you still can't use 14ga everywhere.

I probably used 1500 ft. of 14, and a lot less of everything else.
Everybody giving advice has something they think is worth "just a few
extra bucks", or "just a little extra work".

Wayne