sci.energy

Dan Bloomquist wrote:
>
> H. E. Taylor wrote:
>
>> In article < $ @ >
>> Dan Bloomquist wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> This is usenet, get use to it. And my post before yours, above, I told
>>> you where you could find the long winded version. And in a post around
>>> an hour ago I posted the core argument.
>>
>> Not in this thread which is completely captured above.
>> Do you have a message ID for either "the long winded version"
>> or the "core argument"?
>
> Sorry, I'm not going to do the search where you can find a year's worth
> of this same eestor yourself.
>
>>>> Otherwise I am willing to wait & let ZENN Motors find out.
>>>
>>> Then either they are part of the scam or have no one on staff that can
>>> do some simple research. The physics are pretty simple.
>>>
>> I don't know the details of the ZENN - EEStor relationship.
>> And I don't know what ZENN knows.
>> Evidently neither do you.
>
> You are missing the point. The claim is over three magnitudes of storage
> improvement.
>
>>
>> PS.
>> Have EEStor mentioned a dielectric constant for their new material?
>
> It is not a new material. The patent claim is based on BaTiO3, a
> dielectric that has been used for decades.
>
> / ?isbn=NI000488&page=49
>
> Quote:
> "he best commercial high-voltage capacitors achieve an energy density in
> the range of J/cm3. This has apparently been extended to about 1
> J/cm3 using modified forms of common capacitors materials such as
> metallized BOPP and PET film."

-----------------

Today one can buy supercapacitor with energy density of about 12 J/cm3

see /catalogs/

70F, ; case: diameter 18mm, length 50mm (price: $10) ... let's go:

Energy: C * U * U/2 = 70 * * / 2 = Joules
Volume: ( /2) * ( /2) * * 5 = cm3

Energy Density: / = 1 4 J/cm3

In Wh/cm3: 1 4/3600 = Wh/cm3 ( )
or kWh/cm3

So, for a 20 * 20 * 20 cm box, one can expect Wh
or kWh ... for a today super capacitor.

-----------------

I have here a common 12V, 45AH lead acid battery (price ~$50)
of 170 * 160 * 200 mm size:

Energy: 12 * 45 * 3600 = 1944000 Joules
or kWh
Volume: 17 * 16 * 20 = 5440 cm3
Energy density: 1944000/5440 = 357 J/cm3

In Wh/cm3: 357/3600 = Wh/cm3 (99E-3)
or 99E-6 kWh/cm3 (30 times more than the above
supercapacitor)

-----------------

The interest of supercapacitors is that the can be
charged and discharged in a blick and that they support
an *unlimited* number of charge-discharge cycles.

> Now crunch the numbers in the patent and you will come up with 7000j/cc.
> What I wrote about ZENN stands.

By weight, the results may have been much different :
lead is 'heavy'.

Erdy